I re-watched Red in the Face last night, and I kept getting a feeling like the beat is off. Episode director Tim Hunter has done some of MM’s best episodes, and some other great television as well. I can’t put my finger on it.
Take the slap: Betty and Helen talk. Betty does not appear to understand what Helen is upset about. Then Betty slaps Helen. Just like that. There’s no pause, there’s no sudden recognition or understanding or indeed anger on Betty’s face. There’s no moment of warm-up. Just talk slap. Like that.
Or Pete sitting in the dark with the gun while Trudy yells off-camera. It’s a great scene, a great shot. But it feels like it’s in a different show. There’s no other scene in any Mad Men episode remotely like that. It’s like it’s playing to a different music.
Or the hunting fantasy scene, which is brilliant, but let’s face it, the weirdest thing you’ve ever seen on television (and I’m counting the dancing dwarf on Twin Peaks).
The overall impression, for me, is an episode that only feels like Mad Men about half the time.
March 4, 2008 at 11:06 am
Not to mention the extra day.
But good call, particularly on the Pete and Trudy scene. The episode has some surreal moments. Usually what is surreal about MM is how real it is.
Though I think Betty is always off a beat. That’s what her existence/mental condition feels like and how it manifests.
March 4, 2008 at 11:39 am
I agree about the scene with Pete and the rifle. I never understood why Peggy would get all hot and bothered about that incredibly creepy story he tells. She’s still naive about the world at that point in time so I would think she’d get creeped out and run!
My least favorite episode is Babylon.
March 4, 2008 at 12:06 pm
OmiGODZ, I love Babylon.
I wonder if Peggy wasn’t turned on by Pete telling her something intimate, as much as by the strange nature of the intimacy.
March 4, 2008 at 1:17 pm
Babylon’s one of my fave eppys as well! There was a cohesiveness to it that I enjoyed. Plus, Don was at his most cad-ish (is that a word?)….He gives Betty her REAL Mother’s Day gift (Hee!). Then comes up with some bogus reason to do lunch with Rachel. And when my girl Rachel disses him, he runs to Midge.
Don’s da man!!
March 4, 2008 at 2:24 pm
Weiner said, but I can’t remember where, that there is something for a young woman about a man who kills things. Period. That’s what he said.
Doesn’t mean he wouldn’t say something else five minutes later. He does spin.
March 4, 2008 at 2:36 pm
Oh. I was a young woman once and well… I couldn’t disagree more, especially given Peggy’s character. But okay.
March 4, 2008 at 3:10 pm
I agree with Roberta about Betty naturally being off by a beat.. She’s also divorced from her feelings. And Helen’s implication was pretty intense. So, because she’s too much of a lady to imitate the Orbit Gum commercial …. Who are you calling a cootie queen, you lint licker? … she let her slap do the talking.
I’d assumed Peggy’s reaction to Pete’s story was some quirk or kink in her nature. I would like to see them in a scenario like in the movie Secretary, but that’s *my* quirk! How cool if she was a sub in private, but could still be strong in the work place?
Anyhow, it’s terrific as a character moment, but it would be weird to think that Weiner thinks women like men who kill things. I’ve worked with abused animals, and don’t even want to contemplate that.
March 4, 2008 at 3:25 pm
If they played Babylon in an LA or NYC movie theater, it would win an Oscar for Best Short Feature, hands down.
March 4, 2008 at 3:28 pm
Another Babylon lover here. It flowed for me in much the same way that Marriage of Figaro did. Much the way that Red In the Face did NOT.
I think that Peggy is so wanting acceptance right now on so many levels that she’d never dare to say anything to Pete about that bizarre little fantasy of his other than to show total agreement.
Although I’d have loved it had she gone from her perfectly straight face to laughing in his. He really can get on my last nerve.
March 4, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Magenta, I was going to disagree with you on the grounds that she was so intensely turned on by the fantasy that no way she wasn’t in agreement.
But you might be right, and it goes back to what Deborah said, and even a nod to Glass’s quirk (yeah, like you’re alone in THAT one)… she may have simply succumbed to the fantasy because it was Pete’s and because it was intimate. Regardless of how she might feel about men hunting, how she now feels about this man hunting is… Happy to serve it to you.
Now please pass the cherry danish. The big one in the back.
March 4, 2008 at 10:03 pm
We know Peggy was in denial about her condition, but I wonder if some of the attraction was the primal desire for a provider. Perhaps on some instinctual level she was responding as an expectant mother.
We know that women seek a certain time of man when they’re ovulating, and maybe that’s why Pete got lucky when he showed up at her door. Perhaps his fantasy reinforced her attraction to him as someone to procreate with.
I mean, there’s been a lot of speculation on why she went immediately to the Danish cart, and before her condition was known, a lot of it was ascribed to sublimation of her desires. That would still be valid, but perhaps there was an added aspect of nurturing — cave woman to his cave man.
March 4, 2008 at 10:36 pm
We have the smartest readers. Glass, that is awesome.
March 5, 2008 at 10:33 am
Yeah, I was wondering why she went to the Danish cart too…whether it was the obvious foreshadowing of future developments, or some sort of deeper, Freudian reaction.
All these theories about her reaction to Pete make sense, but when you look at the mindset of young women *in 1960* as opposed to today, her acceptance of his fantasy, however strange it is, is totally believable. Put it this way….if someone dipwad (even an upwardly mobile one, like Pete) said that to my daughter in a few years when she enters the workforce, I can almost guarantee you that she’d laugh right in his face after he shared that fantasy with her. The Peggys of 1960 wouldn’t dare.
Maybe the writers had this deep psychological reason in mind when they wrote the scene, but in my own mind I’m sticking to my theory
One of the things I love about this show is how it is like a puzzle. I always wonder what should be simply taken at face value, and what the writers intended to hold some deeper meaning. The cultural references are pretty cool, too.
March 5, 2008 at 10:46 am
To me the food was about grounding. She was so horny it was nearly visible, and the food was to put the fire out.
There is something about the hunting that I’m not sure about… something about that a girl born around 1938 might have seen meat closer to its natural state. Like, maybe her mother brought home live chickens and killed them.
I don’t know if I’m right about this, but I can’t help but wonder if a 22 y/o in 1960 is less squeamish about the notion of eating fresh kill than the average 22 year old Bay Ridge woman of today.
March 5, 2008 at 11:29 am
Did they kill lots of chickens in Brooklyn in the 30s?
Regarding Peggy’s age, I would guess she’s only about 20, tops. She went to secretarial school, presumably right out of high school. That can’t be more than a 2 year program at the VERY most. Probably even less.
Yeah – definite symbolism of some type in that food cart order – the big cherry danish. Blood. Ham sandwich – meat. Red in the face and red in the pastry.
March 5, 2008 at 1:20 pm
She was horny so she stuffed her face. Pretty easy. Remember that Peggy is WAY out of touch with her body. She had no idea what the Relaxicisor was going to do to her, and it was clearly a discovery. This was not an experienced masturbator saying “Yummy, new toy!” This was a person learning her body, saying “Wow, that’s a new feeling.”
Under those circumstances, she undoubtedly experiences desire as a more generalized hunger, and could mistake it for hunger-for-food.
By the way, I totally don’t think they killed a lot of chickens in Brooklyn, but our grandparents in Brooklyn in the 40s certainly brought home live fish to make gefilte fish. My stepfather talked about coming home from school and finding a giant bass in the bathtub!
March 5, 2008 at 2:22 pm
“She had no idea what the Relaxicisor was going to do to her, and it was clearly a discovery. ”
This makes me so sad. Another reason to hate Pete.
March 5, 2008 at 2:42 pm
I think there’s a difference between being surprised at the Relaxicisor and saying she’d never had a happy. Betty discovered other uses for a washer, that doesn’t man Don’s a dud. Heh.
Granted, it was probably a more selfish time.
March 5, 2008 at 3:26 pm
Alright, alright. You win. Considering the stuffing her face with a ham sandwich and a cherry danish thing….you’re probably right that she was turned on by Pete’s story.
You win.
March 5, 2008 at 3:53 pm
I wouldn’t be surprised if Peggy never had an orgasm, though. Her lack of body awareness, her inexperience, her naivete, her sublimation of her sexual feelings, the way she dresses… To me, Peggy has deep conflicts about her sexuality. This is not the same thing as being celibate (obviously) or even prudish. It’s deeper than that.
That’s my take, anyway. And I doubt that Pete helped much in that regard.
March 5, 2008 at 4:21 pm
Interesting topic. Which of the women have orgasms and which do not? I’m gonna say Midge, Helen, Francine and Rachel do. And oh yeah Joan.
Betty; I’m not too sure, pre-Indian Summer. Trudy–eww no. Gloria, Betty’s father’s girlfriend, absolutely.
March 5, 2008 at 6:18 pm
See, I always saw Peggy as a secret nympho wild child, but I’m not sure why. Maybe it was how quick she got on the pill, or how readily she accepted Pete’s peter. I don’t know that though. Also, the fact that Pete went back and retains interest, while not proof, shows she probably didn’t completely fumble.
I think Betty definitely has an interest in it, and so I have to imagine she finds some pleasure there beyond duty. She also told her therapist that she knows sometimes Don is giving her what she wants. (Which is a glass is half-full way of seeing things if you recall the rest was that sometimes she thinks he gives her what someone else wants.) The point is that Don definitely understand women get something out of it, too. I doubt Midge — or Rachel — would have been with him if he was a lout in that regard.
I wonder if Joan likes it as much as one would assume. Eesh, I see Roger as really selfish. Basically, an entitled middleaged brat.
I think Pete might be okay. Rotten, sure, but I think he might like the feeling of power inherent in satisfying a partner.
I don’t really care for Rachel, which makes me a minority, but I see her as having an earthy side.
Midge would definitely be in touch with that side.
And all the nitwit suburban men think Helen is a walking hormone. I have no idea if this is true.
March 5, 2008 at 8:37 pm
You’re all forgetting about Hildy. Or did I imagine that one?
Glass, I actually see Peggy & Pete’s attraction as utterly primal – the sex might we spontaneous, but I don’t think it’s just a physical thing for either of them.
And Helen, take note that it’s also the women who think she’s the predator.
As for Joan, she definitely gets hers, but not with Roger – that’s just, um, punching in.
March 5, 2008 at 9:24 pm
I did forget about Hildy.
Okay, from what I’ve seen in the world, women who have a lot of sex and maybe even enjoy a lot of sex are not necessarily having orgasms.
So it may be true that Peggy has had other lovers. Or even eleventy bazillion lovers. Doesn’t mean she comes.
And I will even say that I second-guessed myself by putting Joan on the side of Yes. Look at the losers she sleeps with (not Paul, but the weekend entertainment guys). Eww. She may well be always punching the clock.
And perhaps Trudy had wild expansive orgasms with her first dude.
Women can be surprising.
And sorry, Glass, I do love Rachel. I think her voice drips of pheromones. She kinda gives me the gay feelings.
March 6, 2008 at 12:18 am
dansj30-
I agree with the primal attraction between Pete and Peggy and pretty much rambled on about it earlier in the comments. I don’t know for sure that he makes her “arrive,” but I bet she has no problem getting juiced up in his presence.
Yes, the women are insanely threatened by Helen, but I think a lot of that is the male reaction to a woman they perceive as walking around suffering from the lack of regular sex. I think that’s huge.
The second issue women have with Helen is a There But For The Grace of God thing. Just as Betty would rather see her child dead than scarred, some of these women would prefer death to divorce and single parenting. Wasn’t Betty’s car accident a direct result of seeing Helen moving in?
They need to ostracize her because they can’t deal with the concept that she’s like them. They have to believe that if they’re good wives and mothers that their husbands won’t leave or cheat. They believe this to the point of being obtuse at every sign to the contrary and to the point of vilifying a woman they don’t know.
In fact, it seems like all Helen did differently is refuse to ignore her spouse’s infidelity, which means that Francine’s only options are to forget what she knows, become a Helen, or poison the punch. However, this makes her unkindness to Helen extremely ironic.
I don’t see Francine as liking sex, but I haven’t seen enough of her in a role that isn’t Betty’s sidekick or the devastated wife. I think she aspires to be Betty in many ways as she is pretty much the Gold Standard — other than the whole husband is screwing around thing. On the surface she seems more lax than Betty, but I honestly think that’s a matter of not feeling she can compete.
I don’t trust Francine though, and a lot of it is about the Helen thing. I believe that if the circumstances were right that she could turn on Betty out of jealousy, spite, or fear. This is another thing that I suspect rather than know, and not anything that’s supportable.
This show is somewhat of an inkblot test, isn’t it?
March 6, 2008 at 12:37 am
Roberta -
I meant to comment on the Joan thing, sorry. I’m really unsure about her. There’s a lot of cache in her coming across as a very sexual woman, but I have no idea how much of that is real.
I think of her as a Marilyn Monroe type. She is more assertive on the surface, but is very much about using her physical attributes for advancement.
If you look at some of the quotes attributed to MM, I think they might hit Joan where she lives:
*A career is wonderful thing, but you can’t snuggle up to it on a cold night.
*In Hollywood (on Madison Ave?) a girl’s virtue is much less important than her hairdo. You’re judged by how you look, not by what you are. Hollywood’s a place where they’ll pay you a thousand dollars for kiss, and fifty cents for your soul.
*My men expect so much of me, because of the image they’ve made of me and that I’ve made of myself, as a sex symbol. Men expect so much, and I can’t live up to it.
I don’t think she feels like a failure, but the reasons men are attracted to her are things that are fleeting.
She seems to be very good at her job, but has went as far as she can go. She really doesn’t understand Peggy one bit either.
March 6, 2008 at 9:42 am
“See, I always saw Peggy as a secret nympho wild child, but I’m not sure why. Maybe it was how quick she got on the pill, or how readily she accepted Pete’s peter. I don’t know that though. Also, the fact that Pete went back and retains interest, while not proof, shows she probably didn’t completely fumble.”
You can be a secret nympho and still have issues with your sexuality. I really identify with Peggy, btw, and so maybe I’m coming from a very personal side but I’ll put myself out there for the sake of the discussion. And also bc I think this is an unusually respectful and intelligent forum, so I’m not afraid of anyone using my self-revelations against me.
Okay, now, I think Peggy definitely has sexual feelings and in private, she is definitely passionate. I do think that her conflict with her sexuality comes in not feeling fully entitled to claim her power as a sexual being in PUBLIC. She dresses to deliberately subvert her attractiveness (something that everyone comments on constantly). In some way, maybe she feels that being perceived as attractive is dangerous. Or maybe she’s afraid of her own power as a woman. Let’s not forget, either, that nymphos might be promiscuous but do not necessarily enjoy sex–there’s an entirely different phenomenon going on there and often it’s related to neediness and power rather than than sexual pleasure. For the record, I don’t think that Peggy is in this category. What I think is going with Peggy is: She was taught that being a woman entailed certain roles that she naturally rejects. She loves work. She’s ambitious and somehow that conflicts with what she’s been taught about what a woman should want. So in some twisted way she’s decided to subvert that womanly side of her (in a completely unconscious way which is why her denial of her pregnancy was so effective) . This is kind of the model that was drummed into me, btw, and I had lots of relationships but was also extremely effective at dressing (and behaving) in ways that erased my sexual attractiveness. The private sphere of sex was entirely divorced from the public one.
I don’t know if I’m being entirely clear about what I mean but the fact that some of us wonder about whether Joan has orgasms or not, shows that we all intuit there’s a difference between enjoying sex and claiming one’s sexuality fully. Yesterday I thought that, no, it’s not all that clear that Joan enjoys sex per se. (And I thought about those losers she picks up for her weekend fling. My boyfriend’s first reaction was: What is she doing with THEM? She can do better than that.) Joan is the opposite of Peggy: she is fully aware of her sexual power but does she enjoy sex for its own sake? Or is sex just a tool for Joan? Joan looks like she’s a good-time girl and in a way she is but we haven’t seen her go to bed with a man for the simple reason that she’s horny–with Joan, there is always a reason for sex other than physical release.
I don’t mean to paint this as a negative thing, btw, or as judgment of Joan (whom I like as a character) but rather as an observation of how she strikes me.
All the women are living in a world of either/or: Either you’re a mother or a worker–you can’t have it all. Choose between work or love.
March 6, 2008 at 9:54 am
“I don’t trust Francine though, and a lot of it is about the Helen thing. I believe that if the circumstances were right that she could turn on Betty out of jealousy, spite, or fear. This is another thing that I suspect rather than know, and not anything that’s supportable.”
Absolutely. I totally agree with this as well. Look at the way she flirts with Don when he says he’s going upstairs to take a shower. She says: Do you need company? (The Marriage of Figaro.)
I love Rachel too although I think the hair and make-up in the show make her look mannish.
March 6, 2008 at 10:26 am
Excellent comments, btw. Sorry if I reiterated a point that someone else made before me. I had to jump in and post before I finished reading everyone.
I had been thinking about these things since last night. I rented The Best of Everything and watched it with the author’s commentary so I had all these things brewing and Rona Jaffe said that what was drummed into young women’s heads at the time was that you could either be a wife or a career woman, not both and being a career woman was always portrayed as lonely and pathetic.
And she said that divorced women were automatically thought of solely on the basis of their sexuality bc the idea was that they had experienced sex and couldn’t live without it.
The last comment I want to make (hah, the last!) is jumping off something that Jaffe said about how it was part of a series of movies about working girls in Manhattan seeking love and career (such as How To Marry a Millionaire, among others).
And I thought, Huh, Sex and The City was part of this tradition, no? The other thing that struck me was that in these movies and shows, the women are all seen as independent but their conversations focus on men and relationships. One of the things that irritated me no end about SaTC was that these extremely intelligent women never had a single conversation about anything other than men. Women living in NYC, the most cosmopolitan, exciting place in the world! They never once talk about movies or books or museums nor do they seem all that passionate about their jobs–they hardly even complain about having a problem with an ass at work, something that comes up all the time. And I thought, Man, there’s still a huge problem with addressing women’s right to have fulfilling work.
And it’s funny that you mention Marilyn Monroe, Glass, bc when asked about what would make her happy, she quoted Freud: “Love and work. What else is there?” But in entertainment and also in the culture, we STILL bifurcate these two primal needs between men and women. I mean, I’m being very simplistic but I still think that the genre doesn’t really address the meaning and fulfilment of work in women’s lives. Nor do we want to fully acknowledge men’s deep need for real love and relationships. We’ve made even less inroads in this regard; men are portrayed as being complete commitment-phobes utterly unwilling and unable to engage in a real relationship. And it’s so not true!!
This is where I see MM making inroads: The entire show is addressing how Don needs both love and work; how Peggy needs work and love, etc. None of the characters have it figured out, but the show certainly explores their struggles in both directions, imo.
March 6, 2008 at 10:57 am
Eme, this is brilliant commentary. I have nothing to add, I just wanted you to know that I NOTICED how brilliant it was.
March 6, 2008 at 11:17 am
Oh, that’s so sweet, Deb! I appreciate that so much.
March 6, 2008 at 11:26 am
Okay, the MM for Marilyn Monroe, as opposed to MM for Mad Men, messed me up for a few paragraphs.
You’re all pretty wonderful, and I’m kind of honored to be among these conversations.
And we were just gonna start a little blog to talk about TV.
(It’ll be interesting to see what comes of these Francine theories. I still say she has orgasms.)
March 6, 2008 at 11:37 am
Interesting at the end of the season, Francine assumed that Betty was fully aware of Don’s philandering, and was shocked when she realized that Betty’s head was in the sand.
It seemed that going into the conversation (about Carlton cheating) Francine really looked up to Betty for how she was able to handle it.
Interesting insight into what assumptions and expectations each of these ladies has of each other.
March 6, 2008 at 11:43 am
The one thing I do like about Francine is that she’s feisty and she definitely speaks her mind. She’s one of the few characters who is willing to see and voice what is really going on. She doesn’t just turn a blind eye to Carlton’s infidelity and her immediate reaction is a Medea-like rage: “I’ll poison them all.” Pretty potent and gutsy for an era that over-idealized being a wife and mother.
How do you think that Francine and Betty will deal with the consequences of knowing their husband’s infidelities? I could see Francine having a huge fight with Carlton and threatening to take the children with her. She might even do it but I wouldn’t see her divorcing him for a while. But out of the two, Francine would be the most willing to get a divorce, though that also doesn’t seem likely. I bet Francine can raise quite a ruckus when she’s mad too, and Carlton would probably be cowed for a while before going back to sleeping around.
Whereas Betty would become much more passive-aggressive. It would take a lot for Betty to directly confront Don and I could see them living like this for decades.
Anyway, I’m curious. What are your theories about this?
March 6, 2008 at 11:55 am
“Francine assumed that Betty was fully aware of Don’s philandering, and was shocked when she realized that Betty’s head was in the sand.
It seemed that going into the conversation (about Carlton cheating) Francine really looked up to Betty for how she was able to handle it.”
I see this in more complicated terms. I think, yes, she did idealize Betty to some extent, especially given that Betty had been to Europe and had worked as a model in the city. BUT, at the same time, the way Francine framed her concerns was also almost hostile toward Betty, a way of spreading her misery and also of showing Betty, “Hey, babe, your life is not as perfect as you think it is.”
She must know that Betty is incredibly innocent so it couldn’t have been that much of a surprise that Betty had her head in the sand.
Ultimately, of course, Francine’s honesty is to the good, however mixed her motives might be. I can also argue that by Betty reassuring Francine that it’s not what it seems, Betty is gaslighting Francine. And she is! This is extremely damaging, too, bc it makes you doubt your take on reality. Betty is not doing it on purpose, of course, it’s just what’s been done to her all her life. But the consequences are still toxic.
This is what’s great about the scene: There are so many layers there and each person is so complex.
March 6, 2008 at 12:10 pm
I will say this about Francine. She is a mean gossip. She is relentless about Helen, she makes antisemitic remarks. She is not kind in the way that Betty is. And it’s not just Betty being a doormat; her instincts are genuinely kind.
March 6, 2008 at 12:10 pm
And Eme, that’s what’s so great about every scene.
March 6, 2008 at 12:17 pm
Roberta: You are so right. About every scene and about Francine.
Any thoughts about how each woman will deal with the truth about their husbands?
March 6, 2008 at 1:02 pm
Kudos to Anne Dudek for being such a fantastic actress that I really cannot stand that Francine character! Her nastiness to Helen and anti-Semitism were ridiculous! And I wanted to punch her! Not to mention the schadenfraude I felt when Franciine discovered her hubby’s infideliity.
March 6, 2008 at 1:54 pm
I’m a little stuck on how they might each deal with their husbands. I have a hard time believing that Season Two opens with everyone divorced, or even anyone.
But mostly I’m stuck because they are both, Betty and Francine (hmh… not to mention the Pegster) hanging from some seriously frayed mental rope at Season One’s close. I love the powerful rage/Medea take on Francine’s poison fantasy; I think it is the parallel that Weiner and the gang were going for. But I also think that it indicates a post-partum psychosis, and who knows if by next season she’ll just be shuffling around. When did lithium start being used?
March 6, 2008 at 2:49 pm
I don’t see Francine divorcing — or poisoning — her husband yet. I see a huge rage and then he begs for forgiveness and makes a promise to himself to be more careful. He’ll probably get one of this private executive accounts.
Being a Helen is too scary, imo, for a woman not to only do it as a last resort.
On the other hand, we are jumping ahead in time so I suppose it might have come to that.
March 6, 2008 at 2:57 pm
I don’t see anyone divorcing either. Or even separating. Which is why I wonder how they’ll deal.
I don’t think her rage is due to post-partum psychosis. Sexual betrayal brings out murderous feelings in anyone. Betty identified with the intense rage; when she tells Don about Carlton one of her comments is: “She SHOULD poison him.” She’s got a lot of anger to contend with as well, especially in light of the fact that her shrink has also betrayed her confidence. I think we all brush that aside but, having gone to therapy, this is pretty devastating as well. I’d be interested in knowing how both characters deal with their anger.
March 6, 2008 at 2:59 pm
Pardon me for being the guy relating this to the Feminist movement, but I think all three (and you can throw in Joan) represent different paths that were taken for the movement to become collective.
Each character is learning about the trade-offs associated with her own choices in life.
Betty is the dutiful wife that learns, against her will and all she ever believed, that the perfect husband/home/family route can still lead to disappointment and lack of unfulfillment. The air conditioner daydream, telling Francine that she secretly likes speaking with her therapist because she knows he’s looking at her – all evidence of her subconscience at work.
Peggy chooses the opposite direction – hiding her sexuality and rejecting suitors to focus on her career … and having that go horribly awry.
Francine is the realist – facing the problems in her marriage with rage and thoughts of violence. Dare I say, militant?
Don’t get me started on Joan …
Aren’t these the kinds of experiences that typify the reasons for the Feminist movement in the first place?
March 6, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Dan, your thoughts on feminism are smart and on-target. These women are definitely representing different choices; almost the full range of choices available to women at the time (throw in the psychiatrist and Carol and that’s about it).
Roberta, lithium was first used psychiatrically in the late 1800s, stopped by the turn of the century, and was reintroduced in 1949.
March 6, 2008 at 3:49 pm
Re: Betty’s comment.
I wonder if Don gives a taste to the dog first before eating dinner.
dansj30,
Of course you’re right. I think that, with perhaps the exception of Peggy, it’s for the next generation of women to make the leap. Sally might be the one to act on Betty’s sense of dissatisfaction. and to openly reject her mother’s choices.
And that isn’t to say that Peggy won’t be constantly dealing with traditional expectations. I would love to see Pete actually engage her on a creative level and get that an intelligent woman can be a real turn-on. All signs point to him just being threatened.
I “love” when Don complains about Betty being a child when everything in her life — including her husband’s expectations — lead her to it. Don might sleep with a Boho girl, but he didn’t marry one. You can’t yell at a woman for letting a salesman into “your” house and not expect her to act like someone without authority.
She is Exhibit A on why women went running for the shelter of their mother’s little helpers.
She took heat (on message boards) for not being more understanding when Don told her about Roger’s heart attack, and some of that seems unfair. The viewer follows the guy around, we have the visual to see it had an effect on him. Betty has no idea what really matters to him.
I wonder how much of Betty’s angst over her father’s new love interest is a fear of being disposable. She can’t talk about her mother’s death or grieve it, and she feels like her father has moved on. Maybe she wonders how soon she would be forgotten. If her mother/role model isn’t worth more shed tears, what is Betty really worth?
March 6, 2008 at 4:00 pm
Man, I’m getting a little embarrassed about posting so much here. I don’t want to dominate the convo but I’m enjoying everyone’s take so much that I’m all, Don’t stop talking!! What about THIS? What about THAT? So, forgive me if I’m posting too much.
March 6, 2008 at 4:12 pm
Has anyone here seen Dr. T. and the Women? Dr. T’s (Richard Gere’s) wife (played by Farrah Fawcett) has a breakdown and regresses into a fully childlike state. The shrink explains that this is a syndrome that happens to women who are over-pampered and have no responsibilities of their own. Betty (only satiric).
March 6, 2008 at 4:31 pm
[...] Y’all talk a lot. [...]
March 20, 2008 at 10:52 am
I just watched this last night and I have to agree with you. The episode pacing was odd. The conversation between Francine and Betty after the slap was especially disjointed and awkward, imo. First they’re talking about Helen and then, out of the blue, Betty blurts out that she hates JFK. (When you all told me about that line here in the comments section, I hadn’t realized how jarring it was in the episode.) And then Betty segues into talking about her mother, which kind of made sense, but not how it arose in the convo, imo. There was a definite weird stiltedness to the entire episode.